This is just a gentle reminder to everyone posting photos to this forum: please feel free to take a look at other photos that have been posted and offer some helpful thoughts, suggestions, compliments, and critiques of your own. My goal is to build a free and open community here of like-minded, passionate photographers who help each other realize their photographic goals. Everyone benefits the more everyone participates. So, when you post a photo, please consider leaving comments on at least three other images, even if it's just to say "hi" and introduce yourself. That way, we can all help each other become the best photographers that we can be!
Great point, Ian. I can only speak for myself, I know it can be easy to be all excited to post my own photos, but to comment and be encouraging to others, well, requires me to not be self centered, which sadly I can do too much. So thanks for stating this. I'd critique on your photos but, it's not fair 'cuz I can't find too many issues to critique haha. So i'll just say thanks for the comment and the site itself, as it does offer a great place for us amateurs and up and comers to get some insight from others.
Great idea Ian. However I dont think it will happen. I was on another forum similar to this and what I found was if the founder/patron of the forum did not post or comment on an image it just didn't fly. The poor guy tried everything, but ultimately it seemed that the forum members did not feel competent to critique, or were too 'nice' to say something bad or controversia and get backlash. In the end I left the forum because it was so nice that it was essentially dead. What I notice here is that people dont bother leaving anything good bad or indifferent on a post. Lots of views very few likes and fewer comments. Cant get my mind around it. Maybe there are no bad or even average photographers like that nobody is an average driver. While any forum survives on the work put in by one single person, the long term prognosis is poor. People are not engaging themselves, its look at my photo but then dont speak to any other. Sad,
I concur totally Robert and well said Jeremy. However, what I have found here in my short experience is Shuttermonkeys feels different as it is more than a forum. I reckon that if enough start to contribute (i did then lapsed due to current personal circumstances) perhaps we can break the mould and get something rolling that is not centred on some social media disgrace of a platform, nor all about collecting faves and raves to make us feel special.
I want to learn and get more from what I shoot and I feel Ian has set up an environment to allow this to happen in a collaborative and non-confrontational way. A place where it really is about quality and mutual benefit, not quantity .
I suspect I'm similar to most - I'm more than happy to get others' views but feel reluctant to say what I think for for fear of offending or not feeling confident. If enough of us get over this and accept each other as we are then perhaps we can make it flourish. I like Ian (I don't know him at all) and have learnt a lot and enjoyed this place so far and some of the wonderful images we share.
So, a sort of rallying cry - let's go for it. I certainly hope to be true to my intentions.
Hi guys, greetings from Mongolia! Well, at least I've got you three having a discussion :) I'm just hoping to create a community space here for people to interact and learn from each other. Whether that is offering critiques, or something else, doesn't matter so much, I guess, so long as people are interacting and getting something positive out of it. I appreciate you and everyone else who has participated so far, and hopefully over time the community will grow and interact more. I'll keep doing whatever I can on my end to make this a good experience for everyone. Thanks so much!
Very well stated @Andy Cakebread. I'm like you, I don't mind the idea of critiqueing, but I just am unsure of my own ability or talent or whatever you want to call it, that I'm unsure that I can offer very credible advice. But you're right it is more than just a forum for us to get likes, there's a lot of good information on this site as well. But I'm also just not getting out and photographing a lot so I can't offer a whole lot of my own work, other than old photos of my own. But I'm wondering what kind of photos we'll be seeing from @Ian Plant when he gets back from Mongolia, maybe that'll inspire us all some.
@Jeremey Voit i think if you are honest, speak to what you like and how you react to the image is a good start. Look critically at it, be polite helpful
@Robert Molan Thanks, that makes sense!
I was (well, still am, but now it's more of a social club since we consider each other friends now!) in a small Flickr based critique group, and we all understood at the outset that we are all in different points of our photography journey, and we all have different thoughts on what makes a compelling image. I think every one of us was hesitant to offer suggestions or critique just because of the feeling that "who am I to tell you something about your work?" BUT our aim was to help each other grow and learn and we have the attitude of helping each other be the best we can be. It's not about who is the expert - ALL of us have something to offer and we are allowed to have an opinion. Even in that group we don't always agree, and it's a beautiful thing to see different perspectives and consider input from others. I learned SO much from critiques of others and on the flip side, I think I learned even more from giving critique! It causes me to see my own work with a more critical eye.
Totally agree @Katrina Steele Offering a critique means you have to sit and analyse to the level of understanding you have and convey your observations. It’s not easy. Firstly it makes one think about their own capabilities and second how to convey the criticique it is not enough to say ’oh what a lovely photo’. say why it is impacting you and what may make it better.
Those are good points Katrina and Robert.
The title is "Lily Pad Reflection". I under expose in camera, and work with light and dark in Lightroom.
Great composition - I am a fan of minimalist uncluttered images. The imperfects nature of the leafs ands interest through texture and colour. My only concern when underexposing is the potential for noise in the shadows, but I really think you exposed for the intended image, so I dont think the image is underexposed in that sense. Thanks for sharing.
Robert, thank you for the kind comments. By under exposing the original image, it seems to keep the noise problem manageable. I also use a polarizing filter to minimize the surface reflection.
@Bill Wiebesiek , I agree that the exposure is spot on for the image. It was more of general philosophy in that its easier to pull back highlight as long as its not blown out and maintain low noise.
@Robert Molan It is a bit of a balance game. Just the right dark and light for post processing. I would also like to say that I don't consider this to be my all time best photo. I have been experimenting with this technique for a few years, and have gotten some nice (to me) images, some I like even better than this one. This picture was on my desktop when I decided to submit an image to Shuttermonkey, so I just grabbed it quickly. I hope you like it.
As far as critique (ing) goes, it's a mine field. Puccini once said, "Critics are capable of doing much harm, and very little good". Georgia O'Keefe - "i have already settled it for myself , so flattery and criticism go down the same drain, and i am quite free.". That's right, a flattering critique can do harm as well as negative . Only glaring technical problems can easily be dealt with. The photographer will seek out knowledge as he/she progresses. We can help but we must be gentle and kind. No nit - picking.
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I enjoy looking at everyone's photos, and even though there may be a tacit agreement that posters are interested in critiques, I would hesitate to offer any unless the poster asks for critiques specifically. I
generally assume the photograph may be someone's "best ever shot", and sometimes in that case, critique can be hard to receive. When I used to do ceramics, the question that I would ask people for a critique is: if you had to change one thing, what would it be?
Maybe the other way to do it is for people to comment positively about the things they like about the photograph, and then we can learn what is attractive to others.
Or a comparison: which of these two photographs do you like better (and why)?
I think this is a good discussion, and maybe we can continue with what might constitute a good critique. I do think Ian's critique sessions have been really good!
Hi Margaret - good point, although from my perspective I'll post up images almost at random, as some of mine i like without sometimes quite knowing why, so value others' perspectives. I distinguish between criticism and critique - the former belongs elsewhere. If someone among us nice folks gives me a nugget of insight that I can take into the field then my 'best ever' gets better :)
I heartily agree with your view about Ian's sessions
Ajdy
Liking an image is easy critique is hard. It's hard for two reasons - the first is that the critique giver is taking a chance, exposing their knowledge and expertise to others. It also exposes you to being the bad guy, you know the one that drowns kittens and bites the heads of chickens. So @Ian Plant, I for one would appreciate, you doing a video on how to Critique! The second reason its hard is that you may say things that the photographer in question may not like or is not ready to hear!. Personally I look at a photo before critique. What I look for is the level of technical and compositional ability shown in the photo. If the photo looks to be that of a keen beginner I try and make a critique as gentle and high level as possible. If the photo shows sophistication to my eye I will be more nit picky and detailed in my observations. I try to remain impartial pointing out things that are good and things that are not so good and could be improved. I like this level of feedback myself. I try not to critique photos that people take of family members, the value to the photographer is well beyond the artistic and technical and I can not ever understand the meaning the image has to the poster. I believe that we need to critique each image that we see here, to develop our own understanding and to help fellow artists. We may not write the critique, but by doing one internally we learn. Saying something is nice and moving one is a cop out, the person that posted the image gets a 3 second endorphin kick and you have already forgotten the image.
Take time - think about your response, try and work out the posters Intent (hey it helps if you post the story - and no I dont care about your EXIF really) and frame your response accordingly.
Such good points about taking the level of the photographer into consideration. I would never want to offer critique (no matter how accurate) that could squash the zeal of someone just starting out. Positive encouraging feedback can help ignite that spark and be a catalyst for growth and improvement. I don't want to be a killjoy! However, those who are technically proficient and seem to have a higher level of skill can likely handle a more rigorous assessment of the potential "needs work" areas in their images since (I would venture to guess) they've been the recipient of the kind of feedback that fueled growth.
-By the way I am assuming that any photo posted in the CRITIQUE -SESSIONS are asking for critique implicitly
Me too
Good point. At the time that I wrote my comment, I was thinking about the other forums, not the critique section.
Interesting discussion. I think critiques are a valid and time honored way of teaching and much can be learned from them, especially when they are done by teachers/professionals with great experience and skill—-such as Ian’s critiques. However, I don’t think they are necessary in order to learn from or enjoy this site, or to improve one’s photography. I don’t think every photo needs to be critiqued; I think there are a variety of ways to increase one’s knowledge about photography (or any subject), thank goodness. But anyone offering critiques should do some real soul searching regarding their own level of expertise/abilities/talent prior to doing so. I am not referring to one’s level of self confidence here, but something more concrete. I just approach learning in this fashion—whether it be about photography or anything else.
I may be odd person out on this as others feel critiquing—-done by anyone, is the way to go. I don’t think there is an absolute right way or wrong way about this; hopefully everyone will just move forward and help the site grow. It may well be a challenge.
I enjoy knowing that all the people visiting this site have a genuine interest in photography and a passion to learn, by whatever method.
nicely put Faith
Critique by the members of the forum, it was actually suggested by the site admin :). You miss the point, critique has benefit to the person giving the critique as much as the person receiving it. It forces you to look at the image and develop an understanding of it and of your reaction. There is no image that is beyond critique, there is no artist that does not benefit by giving or by receiving a critique. My mileage varies obviously.
We will just have to agree to disagree, Robert, and that is definitely o.k.
:) To point. If you post in a forum that's called please critique me expect the possibility that you will be critiqued, if you post in one please dont critique me, then you would be rightly expect not to be critiqued. There is a difference between critique and criticism in my mind and I try to stay to the former.
I got an Email saying I should critique photos in the Shuttermonkey site. Despite the mine field, are there any photos I should critique?
Hi Bill, critiques are completely optional. If you want to critique photos, any photo in the Critique Sessions category is fair game. But, as I said, no one has to critique other people's photos, although I do encourage people to get involved and interact with one another. Thanks!
There is only one photo to critique,(other than mine). The orangutan. I like that the background is all oran. The colors in the fur are beautifully shown, the eyes are looking directly at the viewer, almost penetrating. The clarity of the image is what caught my eye at first, very well done.
Hi Bill, you can access the Critique category here, this is where all photos should be posted for critique: https://www.shuttermonkeys.com/forum/critique-sessions
I am quite willing to have my photo(s) critiqued or criticized. Go for it.
I wouldn’t post in this forum otherwise